Friday, December 31, 2010

Warren Bailey, The Catamaran Moth

There has been some discussion over at the Classic Moth forum about the hard wings that are showing up on the International foiler Moths. This discussion segued into another discussion about some of North America's own inventive Moth developers back in the day. One in particular, Floridian Warren Bailey, was very productive in the 1950's and 1960's. He designed the Mach 1 which was then modified to become the very popular Florida/Cates Moth in the 1960's. He was one of a triumvirate that designed the Challenger Moth, a fiberglass Moth that was also produced in numbers. His son George Bailey posted this article on Warren on the Classic Moth forum;

Mach I and Cates

Warren Bailey won the Antionio trophy (called the world’s) in 1954 racing the Mach I, the hull he built that was the first of its kind, and that Harry Cates copied. Cates gave his version 3” less vee since this made it a lot easier to sail and also made it easier to build. On the original Mach I and the first two copies Cates built for people up north, the ply would not make the bow shape, so you had to build a glass bow and add it, as my father had done to the original hull when he was unhappy with how it pointed (or didn’t, as it were). With less vee the ply would bend enough to make the shape of the partly plumb bow. One of the early Cates was purchased from Charley Shelton, painted black, named the Mach II, and raced by my sister. Eventually Warren, who sold the Mach I just after wining the Antionio, bought her back – this was around 1959 or so. I raced the Mach I in late 1960 and through 1961 until I went to the UofF in Sept 1961. The Mach II was slower than the Mach I.

Warren had many requests to build Mach I copies. He did not build moths to sell. He built them to improve the design. For a living, he built 38’-45’ strip planked ocean racing centerboarders.

After the Mach I Warren built perhaps eight more attempts to build a faster hull. He then decided he could not. So he quit building and racing Moths. He insists that his only interest was in building a faster hull and racing was how he tested hulls. He said that otherwise, he was not interested in racing. If you consider how relatively crude his rig was in the days when olympic dinghys had a zillion control lines, this seems to fit. On his rig, you could not change anything once you went out other than set the vang to one or two or three knots in the vang line (something you had to do between heats). I remember the first time I saw a boat set up with lots of control lines – around 59’ or 60” in St. Pete? I was amazed at what we were not doing. But if you could hold her level the Mach I was still so fast relative to the competition in 1961 that it did not matter.

George B


I then came across this photo of Warren Bailey racing his own design rule beater catamaran Moth which was eventually outlawed. George, looks like you could provide another story behind this project.

12 comments:

  1. Warren Bailey, my father, seems to have copied the Mach 1 design from Harry Cates, not vice-versa. There was a big fuss over Warren claiming it was his design, but he and Harry either made up or remained friends. As far as I know, Warren stopped claiming it was his design before or shortly after he won the 1954 championship. The last version I heard from him was that he and Harry had both been working towards very similar designs, and Harry produced his first but Warren improved it.

    Warren either quit or was expelled from the Cocoanut Grove Yacht Club around that time and remained forever aggrieved about it. I don't know if the design question was part of that.

    Harry came to dinner at our house from time to time, and we visited his workshop/boatyard (in the middle of the city). I was always wide-eyed at the girlie posters Harry kept around (as did other boatyards we visited) and the rough language of the men when they forgot a little girl was present, just swearing like sailors. Not knowing what any of the words meant, I wondered why they acted embarrassed when they realized I was there and chased me out.

    My parents, especially my father, never discussed their adult conflicts with us children, so I can only report what I overheard them say at the time, and this is it. I don't think anyone who really knew about this is still living. Perhaps the records of the Cocoanut Grove YC contain something?

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  2. Carolyn,

    Thanks for the history. Very, very interesting. Your Dad and Harry Cates were very important figures in the history of small boat racing in the U.S. and these stories add to the heritage. Do you have any photos of Warren and Harry together?

    Rod

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  3. I have a photo of Harry sitting in our living room in Miami, with my sister's dog, Madelaine, in his lap. That would have been in the 1960's. He looks to be in his late 70's or early 80's. I don't recognize him in any other photos I have. I don't have many; it looks like Bill (George) got nearly all. I do have a few photos of Warren when young, sailing or building a boat. What should I send you -- good photocopies of them?

    Harry led an interesting life. He was born in the Bahamas, or went there, perhaps from England (though I remember no accent) to teach school when a young man. He became a house carpenter and worked on several of the large early 1900's Miami homes. When I was a kid, he lived in a big old wooden house somewhere in the vicinity of NW 1st or 2nd Ave. and between maybe 30th and 10th Sts. No one was allowed inside but my dad, supposedly because it was too messy, the old bachelor not keeping up with things. It was deteriorating on the outside. My mother and I were dying to see it because we got the idea from my father that it was full of antiques, but we never even got to stand on the sidewalk in front of it. His shop was around to the side; I think there was a grown-over lawn with some large trees between house and shop. He had a sister who came and looked in on him occasionally, but I never saw her. I understood that she tried to keep the house clean and tidy for him but disapproved of his sailoring life. He was always polite and well-mannered at our house and elsewhere outside the men-only places like his shop.

    I remember him explaining that, in the old days, people just sailed between the Bahamas and Miami whenever they liked, apparently no govt regulations involved. Local people would go work wherever the jobs were and stay as long as they liked, which was how he came to live in Miami.

    But he didn't answer a lot of my childhood questions about his history, like why did he leave teaching, which made him something of a mystery. And he avoided women -- pinups were ok but the real thing (like his sister, whom he though was meddlesome) was only trouble to be avoided.

    Not many sail-related memories, but glimpses into his life and character.

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  4. Carolyn,

    Great historical stories. In history there is always the point of time where like minds get together and things happen. In a small way this is what happened with the Miami Moth Fleet and the two greatest minds and builders were Warren Bailey and Harry Cates. I'll have to talk to George A. so that I can contact you. Thanks again.

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  5. Tweezerman: feel free to get my email address from George A.

    It is wonderful to see via this blog so many classic boats in good repair and in use, and to realize how much interest and skill are out there -- new faces, but the same joys to be shared in designing, building and sailing.

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  6. Warren Bailey designed the Mach 1 on his own, with no input from Harry Cates or anyone else. After Warren won the Antonia trophy in 1954, Harry built three Mach 1's for buyers up north. Because of the deep vee, one had to add a false bow, as was on the original Mach 1. Harry did not like doing this, so he took 3" of vee out of the hull. You could now bend the ply around into the vertical bow, but this boat (Mach II was an example) was slower than the Mach 1. This boat became known as the Cates Florida Moth. Harry built a bunch of them. Warren tried three or four more designs but none were as fast at the Mach 1. He told me he only raced to test designs, and since he could not do better than the Mach 1, he had no interest in racing anymore. So he stopped, with occasional experiments cropping up. The catamaran moth was in 61/62 and was fast enough in a breeze to quickly be outlawed. The fiberglass Challenger moth was a widened copy of Warren's "Challenge." He had nothing to do with its being built. It was heavy (112 lbs), wide (49.5" compared to the Challenge at 36") and slow, and he was not happy that his design was copied or that it was called "Challenger." I still own one, as it also is pretty indestructible. The challenge was designed for a hiking board, something else quickly outlawed after being introduced around 53.

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  7. Would love to see the picture of Harry Cates, as he was my Dad's Uncle.

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  8. I have a photo of Harry Cates standing in the water beside his moth "Hornet."I you would like me to send you a copy, email me at baileyg@ecu.edu. George Bailey

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  9. I bought Mach 1 from Warren Bailey in 1961 or 1962. It was badly damaged in October 1965 when a waterspout spawned by Hurricane Isbellstruck the Coconut Grove Sailing Club as I was preparing it to trailer home. It landed deck down maybe 100 feet way towards the Women’s Club. The trailer went in the other direction towards Peacock Park, but not as far. The boats to the north were total demolished We got it repaired but it leaked like a sieve and was never the same.

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  10. I have lost contact with the Bailey family. I used to live one block behind them. I built my own catamaran sailboat during a summer when I was a U of Fla student. Warren Bailey gave me advise and encouragement as I designed and built my boat. I would like to reconnect with the family.
    Jim Hicks

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  11. Well -- much time has passed since these comments were written!
    I'll be happy to send photocopies of my photos to anyone who wants them. Just email me your US Postal Service (street address or PO box) mailing address. I have email to receive text and pics but to send text only. My email address is: omnifariousabundance@gmail.com
    I have the one photo of Harry Cates, photos of a few of the racing yachts my dad built, a few photos of me sailing Mach II (sail #1470, same as on the catamaran), photos of Warren at age 11 or 12 sailing the first boat he ever built ...
    I don't know who built Mach II, maybe Bill Lee, a good friend of Warren's from the 1940's or earlier. Warren bought it and I sailed it. It had many, many layers of paint and was heavier than Mach I. I tried to sand it once, stood there with an electric sander, sanding the same spot, changing the paper sheet after sheet, then gave up. My mother, as en eye witness, had to verify my this before my father would accept that I really had tried but the paint really was that thick.
    Sheila, I would love to hear more about Harry.
    Carolyn Bailey

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  12. PS Jim, I remember you well. Email me! Carolyn

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